Mental Fitness Coach & Breathwork Facilitator, Michele Schalin
What is Mindful Metamorphosis? It’s how this week’s guest, Michele Schalin, transformed pain into power. Workaholism and Recovery programs didn’t heal Michele’s deepest core issues. Meditation, mindfulness, breathwork, sound healing and brain training were the game changers!
Highlights:
Michele’s journey from recovery to mindfulness.
How being isolated in a foreign country during a pandemic forced her to go inward.
Michele’s first experience with a spirit.
Plant medicine opened the door to blissful love within.
The body is like a river; Everything needs to flow.
What are some of her favorite self care pracices?
Why we need tools like meditation and breathwork to help us find an inner compass for life.
The importance of facing loneliness and the value of creating community.
Why do we treat our emotions like the monster under the bed?
Do we have to suffer to grow?
MICHELE SCHALIN is a Mental Fitness Coach, International Speaker, Author, Breathwork Facilitator, Sound Practioner & Meditation Guide. She specializes in teaching effective techniques for connecting inward, cultivating self-love and manifesting the life you want. Her practices also help handle anxiety, depression, PTSD, and healing from trauma. https://mschalin.com/ Michele is the author of “Mindful Metamorphosis: A Compassionate Guide to Inner Transformation,” available on Amazon.
TIANNA ROSER is an Usui Reiki Master Teacher, Soul Plan Practitioner & Certified Clinical Hypnotist specializing in Past Life Regression, Life Between Lives Regression & Quantum Healing Hypnosis Technique (QHHT). She uses tools to help people experience their true self, the source of real healing & growth. https://www.awakeningtransformation.com. Tianna is the author of “Awakening Transformation: A Beginner’s Guide to Becoming Your Higher Self.” Her book is filled with practices to lighten your spiritual journey & accelerate growth, available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Awakening-Transformation-Beginners-Becoming-Higher/dp/1737705303
TIM HOWE has always been interested in unusual and strange phenomena and considers himself to be a consciousness explorer. He was born and raised in Table Rock Village, Wyoming, which happens to no longer exist. He currently makes his home in Austin, Texas where he’s constantly surrounded by beautiful females (wife, daughter and cat).
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TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Tianna: So Michelle, you've written this book, mindful metamorphosis I thought it would be great maybe to start off before we jump into your book, which has so many wonderful tools and things that people can utilize on their own journey. It would be great to have the background of what your own transformational journey has been.
[00:00:21] Michele: So my name is Michelle Shalin and I get, you know, it really started when I got into 12 step communities when I was 25. I, for the first time, it was a, a community groups of people that were encouraging me to talk about feelings. And I grew up with that was like off limits and they're talking about fears and resentments and I was like, wow, and they were very accepting and everything.
[00:00:46] Michele: So I loved it. And I met my ex husband in those communities, it became a foundation of our marriage and our kids grew up around that for 26 years. And I was a leader in a lot of the communities and the groups and I mentored hundreds of women. And they talk about it being a spiritual program, but not a lot of people treat it that way.
[00:01:09] Michele: It's really more of a personal development program. But then a lot of people don't even work the steps. They just go to meetings and use it kind of as a dumping session, like a group therapy. And so even though I grew a lot with it., I looked at resentments and fears and how they ran in my life and what caused them and stuff like that.
[00:01:27] Michele: I went to dug deep into a lot of areas in my childhood and that I never went inward because I didn't know how to meditate and even though it talks about meditation in one of the steps. Nobody was doing it like nobody. I was up , in Chicago and then came down to Texas and it was the same and we didn't have the internet back then.
[00:01:48] Michele: So I would have, and I knew that this was like, cause I'm an overachiever. I'm going to do it right. And this was like, this is my weak link. Like I'm not doing it. And I would ask people about it. People that had longer time than me and nobody, nobody was doing it. And so
[00:02:02] Michele: right around the same time I decided to leave those communities for several reasons, disempowering messaging talking about the symptom as if it were the problem and the addiction is a symptom of the problem. And they didn't talk about, trauma healing and there was a really big over dependence of a lot of encouragement, over encouragement, in my opinion, for over dependence on the sponsor instead of being more empowered within yourself to do things, you know?
[00:02:28] Michele: And so right around that time same time as I had a back surgery and I had a fusion. And then I realized after I had the back surgery that I was using exercise obsessively. I was a hardcore workout queen for decades and I was using that to get out the excess energy of anxiety that I was producing by my thinking and the way I lived my life.
[00:02:53] Michele: I didn't have a good balance. I ate good. I exercised. I thought it was healthy, but. I didn't have good balance and I was a raging workaholic because my sense of identity and approval came from producing. And and so I never stopped and I lived my life like that. Hence, I had a tissue breakdown in my back and I had a back surgery.
[00:03:12] Michele: And I realized after I had the surgery, I had vulnerability in my back and my neck. So you know how when you get stressed out, you feel like a tension in your neck and your back and maybe in your stomach. Well, for me, it was painful. It wasn't just tense. It was really painful. And I realized, oh my God, I have to get control over this.
[00:03:30] Michele: And then I realized that the tool I'd been using for decades is just been ripped from me because I could not, I couldn't move hard and fast like I used to. And so I got into meditation finally. And I think that I don't know if I ever would have gotten in meditation, if that hadn't happened, because that was the universe of basically, I didn't whisper to the whisper, other whispers during my life to slow down.
[00:03:52] Michele: And this was the sledgehammer. We're going to make you stay still. And finally, That's what led me into meditation and that absolutely changed my world. And then I got into yoga and meditation. I moved down to Key West with my ex husband and I found this really beautiful spiritual community that was wonderful and I like really vibed with a lot of them and they were really supportive in my journey and I started reading, Eckhart Tolle's books and The Four Agreements.
[00:04:18] Michele: It really opened up my mind and I was going inward and a lot of emotions started coming up, because things were buried and all this stuff from childhood and being married to my ex husband at the time for like 27 years. And things were becoming more clear to me and even though we had a troubled marriage, especially in the last 10 years. And he was a wonderful person, loved me very much, but he was really afraid of going inward and healing from his own trauma.
[00:04:43] Michele: And he had a lot. And when I talked to him about our relationship and what could be what I needed and what I wanted to work with him on, I was immediately the enemy. And even though he was very loving and supportive in a lot of areas, this was, forget it. A hundred percent was my fault. Accept me.
[00:05:00] Michele: Don't try to change me. I'm talking fine. You're oversensitive. That kind of thing. A lot of gaslighting. But back then I didn't know what it was. You know what I mean? We didn't have the term. And so that happened a lot in our marriage. And then it really happened big time when I went inward and all of a sudden I was growing and coming out and going, I'm not putting up with this anymore.
[00:05:19] Michele: Like this is not going to happen. And he was super threatened by it. And just got really toxic for both of us. And we separated after 27 years. And basically I was like, you work on yourself and see how that goes. Maybe, , but I really did know it was over, but I didn't want to face it.
[00:05:37] Michele: Because I had a very big fear of being alone. I felt very alone as a child. And he was the one person in my life ever that gave me so much love and support more than my family or anything. And so I was really afraid to leave him because I was afraid to be alone in the world. Even though I felt alone in our relationship a lot, I didn't feel alone in the universe with him.
[00:05:58] Michele: And then to leave him, I would be. So I went to Spain to improve my Spanish. I had been there before. And I was very naive about what it was going to be like. I had beginner level Spanish. I didn't know anybody. So, and then I was in this emotional state of leaving everything behind and, my family, my relationship, all of that, for the first time in my life.
[00:06:20] Michele: So I had no idea how difficult , it was going to be. And even though it was an incredible, beautiful experience in a lot of ways, It was one of the most difficult things I ever did any to. And so I got introduced, when I was in Spain, I got introduced to Joe Dispenza.
[00:06:35] Michele: Started getting, that really helped my meditation practice be stronger. I got introduced to breathwork, the breathwork that I actually facilitate now. Holotropic breathwork. I got introduced to sound therapy. I got introduced to hypnotherapy for the first time. And I was doing an incredible amount of meditation and really going inward a lot.
[00:06:54] Michele: And then all that led me to plant medicine experiences as well. And I started using plant medicine experiences because I started the first time I did it. I was like, Oh my God, I'm like present for six hours and everything was beautiful and everything was interesting. And I felt joy. I felt like a child.
[00:07:13] Michele: And I was so fascinated by that. I wanted to learn more. And so I studied a lot and learned how it could be therapeutic And really healed from trauma and get connected spiritually, all the things I wanted to do. So I just kept on working on all these different things, cultivating self love and forgiveness and mindfulness techniques, and just really studying neuroscience and learning how everything worked with your neuron connections and your body, but stress hormones and everything, and I started doing solo journeys with psilocybin mostly, and then group experience, group sessions.
[00:07:44] Michele: And that started in Spain. And I had some really, really profound experiences. It basically just amplified everything I was working on. So if I was working on self love, I had a beautiful experience around that. It just like made me grow faster and, and it opened up the door.
[00:08:01] Michele: To a couple things it opened up the door to a very deep love like the like unbelievable kind of blissful Love i'd never experienced before because i'd never tapped into that before and it went inward And even though I was doing meditation. This was it Opened that up more and then I could access that Just with meditation or breath work or even now just going to nature sometime I don't even have to be in a meditative state.
[00:08:25] Michele: I can access that. I never heard had access to that before in my life, before I had plant based experiences. The other thing that really helped me a lot was Because I was like, Oh, what is this thing with the bad trip , and I would talk to people and some friends that knew more than me.
[00:08:39] Michele: And I said, after researching and listen to people's stories, I said, well, it seems the bad trip is people that were resisting what they were being shown. and they said, yes, that's exactly what it is. I said, okay. So I believe, and I share this with people that. Having some kind of meditative practice or breathwork practice before you go into an experience like that is very helpful because it helps you be okay and accept things and understand that it's just your mind.
[00:09:05] Michele: It's okay. This isn't like really happening. Like a dragon's coming to you if that's what you see or something, I don't see that much visuals mostly for me. It's feeling okay. And so that opened me up a lot. , and the big, the other door that it really opened was. learning how to sit with my feelings and embrace them and be comfortable with uncomfortable feelings.
[00:09:27] Michele: And because we're not taught that, right? And that's like, our mind is, Oh, we want to get rid of it. We want to get distracted. even when we know better. We are so ingrained with that conditioning. Our body can tense up and try to resist it. I can see myself sometimes still. But those strong journeys are, boom, you got five hours of sitting with it, and that was really great practice for me.
[00:09:46] Michele: And, so I could do it now much, much, much more easier and understanding that purging this more and screaming, crying, whatever I needed to do. was so liberating and so clearing my body. Cause now I understand your body's like a river. It needs to get the energy to flow and come out.
[00:10:02] Michele: And , a lot of suppressed emotions are stuck energy. , I learned more and more about all that. And when I was in Spain, I was there for three and a half years and I was there for two years. And so you can imagine, I was facing the biggest fear of my life was to be alone. And then I attracted a man to me and had a, not a committed relationship, but a very deep, profound relationship, not on a spiritual level at all, but just, it was deep and profound for me because I attracted him because he was like my father and I needed to heal in that relationship and that's why I attracted him.
[00:10:34] Michele: So that's why it was profound for me. I didn't re I mean, I saw similarities, but I really didn't realize that I was reliving my childhood trauma. Huh? Out in Spain with the combination of this man and the combination of feeling alone felt like my childhood. And I really didn't realize that in the deep, deep way until I came back in 2021.
[00:10:53] Michele: And I watched the movie, the wisdom of trauma with Gabor Mate's documentary. And then I was like, and then I went to like this three weeks of really deep, deep weeping about my childhood. Nothing new. It was just deeper healing. And then that's when I figured out like, Wow. I actually, this is what happened over there.
[00:11:13] Michele: And what happened when I was during the quarantine, I was there for two years and then COVID hit. And I was already on route to stay there. I have plans on living there. Like I was going to be there permanently and I'm like, okay, I'm just going to ride this out. I didn't get stuck. I could have come home.
[00:11:28] Michele: But I was like, no, I'm going to ride this out. And it was extremely severe. I had seven weeks locked up in my studio apartment with no balcony or no yard. I could walk to the grocery store and back a block and a half away. That's it. I didn't have a car. I didn't have a dog. Couldn't get out there,
[00:11:43] Michele: and people were like, well, why didn't you borrow your neighbor's dog? I'm like, they're not going to give me their dog. Everyone's freaked out, and cops had a lot of time on their hands and they were putting out the fines equivalent of 170 bucks, even if you didn't have a mask, they were giving you fines like that.
[00:11:57] Michele: And so I just decided I was very fortunate that I had all these tools. , meditation, breathwork, mindfulness. I was already doing studying and I happened to have chocolate bars with psilocybin in them that I ordered from the Netherlands. And I did, it was not planned. It was just like, boom, because there was no warning at all.
[00:12:15] Michele: It was like, we were getting ready for this great, really great festival called FIAS and annual big annual festival. And then in two days it went from yay to boom. Okay, it's like this cloak of darkness that just went on and I was like, oh my god, I got the chocolates And so what I did was I just put myself in this bubble.
[00:12:34] Michele: That's why and my cover has got me in a cocoon Because I said when I came out of the of the experience to my friends I feel like I just came out of a cocoon because I micromanaged all my input apart from talking to my students I was teaching English to I only listened to inspirational, motivational, scientific stuff.
[00:12:54] Michele: I was studying spiritual meditations and I didn't watch any occasional documentary, no movies, no series, , nothing. Yoga. I danced , went up and down the stairs for exercise. It was like this, boom, like a bubble. And once a week I would do a journey. And I had been working on forgiveness for a while with my mom and I, my mom had died 30 years previous.
[00:13:17] Michele: She would die. She was diagnosed when she was 48 with a brain tumor and lasted about eight years. It was very tragic. And we loved each other very much, but we had a very volatile relationship. And especially the last years, it was so hard. She just had a lot of anger and she was really on on me,
[00:13:32] Michele: and so I had decades of suffering, resentment and anger with that. I was really trying to work on it before I even went to Spain. And I happened to read the book How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan, which is also a series on Netflix, the same, I highly recommend it to anybody.
[00:13:50] Michele: And he had suggested listening to classical music. And if anybody's had the experience of plant medicine experiences, whatever is introduced in the environment at the time, it's going to affect them. And this was the first time I listened to a particular song in a journey that reminded me of something that I associated with something.
[00:14:09] Michele: And it was my mom, because it was the Nutcracker Ballet, and that was like a big thing for her. And every Christmas, we would see it on TV or go to the ballet, play the music, and I did the same tradition with my kids. So that was like a real big thing. profound thing. And as soon as that happened, as soon as I started to hear the song, immediately my mind was like, mom.
[00:14:28] Michele: And I had no, I didn't have intention of going in with that at all. It was just boom. And I absolutely felt her presence. That was the very first time I ever felt a spirit in my life. And I didn't see anything. I didn't hear anything, but it was absolutely undeniable. Her is no question to me. And it was a lot of crying and I love you and I forgive you, please forgive me.
[00:14:46] Michele: And I hugged her little girl and all this kind of stuff. It was incredible. And after that, Never, ever, ever have I had any kind of angry thought about her, not once. That was it. And I held on to that stuff for so long. And now I have a closer connection to her than even when we were live. And during that experience the message came to me and I asked her later and she said, yes, she's the one that told me to write this book, to tell people what you were going through, what you were learning because you could help a lot of people.
[00:15:15] Michele: So that's, What came out of that's how it came out. And even though the book was one of the hardest projects I've ever done for sure because I wanted so many versions of it, , I wanted the regular English, audible, Spanish translation, the whole deal. It's been a two year project of intensive work and and I took on extra work to to be able to afford double that.
[00:15:36] Michele: But I was just so determined cause I felt like it was absolutely. The message that I need that it was something I had to do. It was my purpose to get it out into the world but she told me that, and also I just felt it in my heart. So, when I came back to Austin I found somebody doing the breathwork and the sound sessions and the sound bath together, and that blew my mind.
[00:15:57] Michele: The same breathwork that I had been introduced to in Spain. And I was like, Oh, this is amazing. Combining them. So I started doing that. And and then I did that for a good year and a half and was writing my book. So that was super healing too, of course, because I had some emotion definitely going around that I had to put myself in during the writing of the book and overworking so much, I had to put myself into this unbalance of work.
[00:16:22] Michele: There was a lot of work, like really unbalanced. And it woke up some neuron connections from my workaholic days. And I thought it was going to just be a flick of the switch and I could turn it off after six months, which was my goal. And it took a few months to get back normal again, because it was struggling.
[00:16:39] Michele: , it struggled with me psychologically from that old habit of go, go, go and not having balance. But I bet, but it was a great thing. I didn't criticize myself. I didn't get depressed about it. But I knew because I understood. How the brain works and I understood what was happening because of the studies, and I was like, okay, I see what this is.
[00:16:55] Michele: This is okay. I got it, and then I got back on track to a really good balance. And so I just continue to do what I do is the breath work has been absolutely amazing for, for healing as well. And I continue to do plant medicine experiences occasionally and go deeper and I just continue to heal and.
[00:17:13] Michele: And share with people my life is so much different now as far as The love that I feel for myself the comfort I have for myself i'm not Searching for someone or a man to try to validate me or I don't feel lonely very once in a great while but I know that when I feel that way i'm just not connected, It's just an illusion because we're connected
[00:17:31] Tim: sorry to interrupt here that that actually reminded me of , when we first started this recording, I was actually a little late.
[00:17:38] Tim: Normally, I'm pretty early to their to the recording and it was because I was going through your website and I was looking at I was watching some of your videos that you have on There and you have some really great videos on your website. There's a couple that that drew my attention One was I think it's called suffer better suffer less Right, that's really good because you talk about how to process your feelings and you talk about this.
[00:18:06] Tim: I guess like society has this wall of shame around Expressing your feelings or some of your feelings and I feel like that's actually true and I and I do want you to talk a Little bit about that. But the other video that drew me drew my attention was The one about self love. I feel like that's a really powerful concept as well You And maybe you can talk about those two things, processing your feelings and how important self love is.
[00:18:33] Michele: Sure. Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed the videos. Some of the stuff we talked about at the group, Tiana the other day. When she's saying
[00:18:41] Tianna: that, she means because I have that monthly Austin Spiritual Awakening group and that's how I met Michele , as listeners know, a lot of our guests end up being someone that have met through the group that I organize and just really beautiful advanced evolved souls come to our group and it's a wonderful place that we connect.
[00:19:00] Tianna: And I hope, I know a lot of listeners are not in Austin, but I hope that maybe you'll be inspired to create something like that in your community, because it's so important, that's what we're needing right now in this changing times as well as our solo journeys. And I think a lot of us have this experience, like Michelle's talking about, I think there's aspects of our journey that we do need to sort of experience.
[00:19:23] Tianna: Aloneness or even loneliness , is a common part of the path feeling like, Oh, no one understands what I'm going through. I'm the only one. And then we make peace with that from going within. And then once we make peace with that from going within, suddenly we draw and attract other people in our life.
[00:19:39] Tianna: Anyway, I think it's important to, create these communities around the world where we can all connect. in that way. So I'm so glad that I've met you that way, Michelle. And now I'll let you answer the question. I couldn't
[00:19:51] Michele: agree with more. That gathering is absolutely beautiful and amazing. And I encourage other people to do it as well, because yes, , I was talking to someone the other day, a client of mine, and she's like, I'm starting to feel lonely.
[00:20:02] Michele: Like the things I'm understanding now, I'm trying to talk to my friends and family. And they're just looking at me. Like, I don't get it. What are you talking about? Because her vibration is different now, they're not vibing the same. And, and I said, it's a, it's a process that's a part of the growth.
[00:20:16] Michele: And I explained to her that, you know, keep on going and embrace that, and you will attract the same vibration people. And it's so important to feel belonging in a part of community , and be able to, talk about the stuff that we do. So we're very fortunate. So yes, I encourage people to do too.
[00:20:30] Michele: Okay. So it's funny that you brought up the suffer better, suffer less video, because the idea for that, that was actually almost going to be my title of my book. It was going to be suffer better, suffer less because of the quote from Thich Nhat Hanh, the Vietnamese Buddhist monk that said, when you learn to suffer better, You'll suffer much less.
[00:20:48] Michele: And so I immediately knew what he was talking about. Cause I was already learning how to process my emotions, right? The extent of the suffering is our resistance, just like in life, right, it's just how we look at it and how, if we're going to. And resist it or embrace it just like, Oh, I have a stressful life.
[00:21:03] Michele: Well, not really. It's the way you look at the challenges. It's making it stressful, you know? And so I had, I remember the first editor that I talked to, I told him my title and he was like, I don't think that's, I mean, people like, , but my book, my demographic for the book is people that don't know as much, you know what I mean?
[00:21:23] Michele: So suffer, the word suffer is like. Yeah. So that's why I ended up changing it. But yeah, I mean, we treat, because we're not taught to how to process our emotions, we treat them like a monster underneath the bed. And then we're in a culture that encourages us to look outside of ourselves for fulfillment.
[00:21:44] Michele: And any kind of happiness or anything. I mean, we're very much programmed like that. And it started like in the twenties. There's actually a, a really cool PBS documentary called the century of self that talks about that. And it's really, really interesting. It's on YouTube for free. And it talks about this man named Edward Bernays, who actually was a genius at that, and he was Sigmund Freud's nephew.
[00:22:07] Michele: And he worked with politicians and organizations and companies in America, and I'm sure maybe around the world, but this is just focused on America, and showed them how they could manipulate people. To not only want what they have, but think they needed what they had. So, we grew up with all this.
[00:22:22] Michele: And so we're kind of wired to do that. And we have to really decondition and deprogram ourselves to learn how to express and be okay with our feelings. And what I tell people, I don't even call, you hear me say, I say difficult feelings. I don't say negative, I don't say bad.
[00:22:38] Michele: Because those feelings are a part of who you are. And if you're routinely labeling your feelings that are difficult for you, like negative and bad, then you can't really cultivate like true unconditional love for yourself, but you're still calling your part of yourself negative and bad. And then culturally, what do we do?
[00:22:55] Michele: We have this thing: I'm my own worst enemy. I'm my own biggest critic. And we think this is totally normal. A lot of us say it all the time. This is just a normal thing. But when you think about that. And you treated someone else like that, you would think that was neglect and abuse.
[00:23:08] Michele: If you saw a parent teach a child and talk to a child like that, you would think it was abusive. And we diminish ourselves on a regular basis by the way we talk to ourselves and how we treat ourselves this way. And then, When we do express emotion with one another, what's the first thing we say to each other?
[00:23:26] Tianna: I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm crying. That's right. I'm sorry. We apologize
[00:23:30] Michele: for a human emotion. Mm-Hmm. It's so cruel the way we teach. You treat ourselves, you know? And so now all the time, I always joke about it when I talk in a group or something. 'cause after I say it, everybody starts to say it because we're so, and, and Americans particularly, they say, I’m sorry a lot.
[00:23:45] Michele: Okay. And and women more so, but just Americans in general will say it a lot. And cause I living over abroad, I could see the big difference. And I always say if someone starts to cry in front of me anytime, anytime, I'm like, don't be sorry. They say sorry. I go, don't be sorry. You're safe with me.
[00:24:03] Michele: Don't ever, don't ever apologize for your feelings. And when I cry, I don't ever say sorry. I just say, oh, I'm getting emotional. But I'd never say sorry anymore because I think that's a cruel way to treat yourself. And just really, meditation is such a beautiful brain. I tell people all the time, meditation is a superpower.
[00:24:21] Michele: That's not an exaggeration. It changes every aspect of your life, physically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, everything. You get to learn how to control your thoughts more. You need to learn how to process your feelings more. You can learn to talk more kindly and have more compassion to everything in your body and physiologically, it improves your body.
[00:24:38] Michele: It improves your health. But the training that the meditation gives you helps you learn how to like catch those thoughts. Cause before you just, you don't even know, you're just totally unaware. You're totally unconscious. And all this stuff's going in the background. 95 percent of the time, our subconscious is ruling, running the show.
[00:24:55] Michele: And if we don't know what's back there, I mean, we tune it out like a roommate that talks all the time, but it's really affecting us and it's running the show. Okay. And so. I think when you go into the meditation and breath work and , plant medicine, whatever what you resonate with going inward and really getting that training, then you learn to be more conscious and you notice, Oh, what am I, , Look at how I'm talking to myself, but not just observing.
[00:25:20] Michele: No judgment. Oh, I'm always talking about approach approaching all of this with compassion and love, no judgment, no criticism. And if you see yourself talking in a way that you don't want to talk about yourself, or if you see yourself ruminating or whatever, to catch it. And then say it out loud.
[00:25:38] Michele: No, I don't say that anymore. No, I say this not to just resist it, but to say, no, I say this. I believe this now, , as just one really good practice to do to just get that, that's a conscious way of getting it into your subconscious with the repetition, you know what I mean? And correcting it.
[00:25:54] Michele: And that's just a really great self care practice. It's one of the many ways
[00:25:59] Tianna: I think it's really interesting how all of this happened in Spain I wonder you know, we've had I forget what it's called now We had the astrologer that's based on in location and I was like, I wonder if you have , I have been told
[00:26:12] Michele: yeah Yeah I mean it just was that it started and then it boom went there and then I actually got more healing after I got back Even you know past like I had been told there Oh, it's funny because I've been wanting to try it.
[00:26:25] Michele: I've been trying to learn Spanish for many years, okay? And people used to say, why is it so important to you? What's the big deal for Spanish with you? And I used to joke years ago, I'd be like, oh, maybe I was a Latino in my past life. I'm a Latino, but I don't know. And then I actually was told in a reading that I had some lives as a, some people in Spain.
[00:26:44] Tianna: But I also think there's something and I know, of course, not everybody can do this and it's fine. You don't have to leave your home to be able to have these big spiritual experiences. But I also do think that like for me, when I had my initial spiritual awakening in Hawaii, and then I moved all the way across the country to Boston where nobody knew me.
[00:27:03] Tianna: And it felt like the energy's different and nobody knows you and you kind of have , a chance to sort of, create something new , or try out something new and different aspects of yourself. And so there's something really cool about that. And also similarly, it wasn't similar to covid, but it was like going from the warmth of Hawaii and then going to like the wintertime in Boston where suddenly and I didn't have any money.
[00:27:28] Tianna: Really, I was like, really, I'd left a nice corporate job and then suddenly I was being paid minimum wage. I didn't have any money. And so. Just stay in my little tiny basement apartment all the time. It felt that same kind of way. It was like, okay, all I could do is meditate and read books and do Reiki
[00:27:46] Tianna: . I always just jokingly call those my monk, like years, but there's something really cool about being isolated in a way. And it was way too cold for me to want to go outside. And so then you go inward. And so. I think you said like, Oh, , it wasn't planned, but I think your soul planned that.
[00:28:00] Tianna: The universe,
[00:28:01] Michele: I was like, Oh, it's just a distraction. I'm going to have an adventure, but no, this was the universe's plan for me for sure. And, and that was a lot of similar with me too, , like you shedded your identities, , you shed it, who you were. And it was just like purging. Like if you purge stuff in your house, you know what I mean?
[00:28:16] Michele: It's like, all of a sudden, all this stuff that you were attached to were gone. And I did the same thing. I mean, people knew me as a business owner and a community person, all this kind of stuff. And when I got there, it was like. I couldn't even be myself because I couldn't express myself. Like people couldn't tell that I was actually smart and pretty funny.
[00:28:37] Michele: Like I couldn't be, cause my normal self is I talk to everybody, , like I'll talk, I'll tell, Hey, how's it going? , I talked to anybody, even around here where people are like looking at their phones all the time. I'll like engage with people, strangers on a regular basis. And I couldn't, I felt intimidated to do that because I may know how to say something to them.
[00:28:55] Michele: But I understand anything they would say back. And then the last year and a half, everyone was wearing masks, , I was like, yeah, so, but same kind of thing. Like I went from , a nicer, environment, a house and, a family around me and all that kind of stuff to nothing.
[00:29:11] Michele: Cause I went over there with like three suitcases and that was it.
[00:29:14] Tianna: Yeah. And so typically now, like who are you mostly working with? do you have a certain demographic? It's like women or it's people or maybe women who are leaving their relationship or they're at a crossroads of their life.
[00:29:29] Michele: I mean, my biggest demographic that's, I don't just say I just work with women right now, maybe I'll change that. I don't know, but so far the biggest demographic that I have for sure is between like 30 women between 30
[00:29:44] Tim: and
[00:29:45] Michele: 65. I do a lot of private coaching. I do work with companies, , with stress management training and help introduce all kinds of holistic practices to them.
[00:29:55] Michele: I can do like workshops or series of workshops online or in person. And I love doing the breathwork and sound baths that I do them I do two to three month, a month public groups. And then privately, sometimes people will hire me to come to their house and do it there with them. , and I love to collaborate with events and retreats, I'm starting to get into that more and more.
[00:30:14] Michele: And then I'm going to actually be moving to Austin real soon. I'm going to be having events in my house, , so , I'm really connecting a lot in the last two years, especially I pivoted to both about three years ago. I pivoted from, okay, enough of trying to do the dating scene and just to pivot towards get more feminine energy.
[00:30:32] Michele: Cause in my life, I had an imbalance most of my life and having too much male energy and not enough feminine. And I can feel that even now when I'm like trying to move ahead in my career and do things in the business, you know what I mean? , so I really pivoted towards women for the first time in my life because my mom didn't know how to, embrace me that way.
[00:30:51] Michele: And I grew up with three brothers. So, I had friends, but I never had like a group of friends like that, a group of girls or whatever. Like my daughter had that. And I remember when she got that and she was older and she did that. I was like, wow, . I never did that as an adult, and so I go to a lot of women's circles and that and I started doing that a lot when I got back here and that's been incredibly nurturing and yeah, and I've been able to, , help people.
[00:31:14] Michele: help women that way too.
[00:31:15] Tianna: Yeah. I think whether you're in a male body or female body, we're all sort of embracing more of the yin feminine attributes just because the yang energy has been predominant on the planet. Which again, , there's nothing wrong with yang energy.
[00:31:29] Tianna: It's just about flow and balance. So the doing and achieving and making it happen. We've all been really steeped in that, and so we're learning to play and feel and connect and collaborate more versus compete. And so, , we get to have more fun now, which is, I know it's just
[00:31:50] Michele: playing more, I know it's beautiful.
[00:31:51] Michele: Yeah. And so, and I love when I see men relaxing more into it and stuff like that. Yeah. It's really, I mean, the conversations we're having now, we wouldn't have had 10 years ago. No way not even five years ago. It's changed,
[00:32:05] Tim: yeah,
[00:32:06] Michele: so it's beautiful
[00:32:08] Tim: Yeah, it makes me wonder, where are all the men at?
[00:32:11] Tim: like are they doing any of this work because it doesn't seem like it seems like there are a lot of females that are working on themselves and and getting together and having gatherings and doing this kind of thing but I don't really see it happening for men. I feel like that you've said this before like that's a that's an opportunity, right?
[00:32:28] Tim: Like it's a big There's a hole there
[00:32:31] Tianna: Yeah. Come to the meetup, Tim. Like we just had one. There were a lot of guys. It's really changed. Just like Michelle was saying, , Oh, it's different. , this conversation is different from five years, 10 years ago. Same with, , the meetup that I organized, which I don't know, maybe I've been doing it for like six or even seven years.
[00:32:50] Tianna: I can't remember. There was a lot of it. Yeah. There it's really changing. I really noticed that changing more and more men are stepping up. And yes, Tim, it's an opportunity for you if you want to, create a men's group there, but I do see more of that. And so I want to acknowledge that for all the men out there thank you for doing the work and stepping up because I really do see a difference , from 10.
[00:33:13] Tianna: Years ago and even from five years ago. And so to me, I feel very hopeful. Same with the younger generation. I see a lot of more of that as well. And so. It is changing.
[00:33:23] Michele: And there's conscious, I mean, we have the term conscious parenting for the first time. Okay. And we're going to grow up boys in that.
[00:33:30] Michele: All right. And so that's super exciting. , and I say this with no judgment and in the utmost compassion, love for men. They're behind the ball. I mean, women are definitely, ahead of the game on this. I think there's different things that kind of played into that.
[00:33:47] Michele: I mean, women were more attracted to yoga when yoga started getting popular about 20 years ago. And so they had more time to go inward. Women, even though we have our own stuff that we have been conditioned not to be angry, we can be sad, but we can't be angry. You know what I mean? You guys not can't be sad, but you can be angry.
[00:34:04] Michele: You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like all these weird conditionings of female and male have. And then when we get in a relationship with a man that is totally unavailable emotionally, like my ex husband and this other man in Spain that I had most of the experiences I've had, then they push back and don't want to hear.
[00:34:22] Michele: They don't want us to express ourselves because that's what they know. You know what I mean? So it's hard for everybody, but men, , they're the hierarchy for men. They're like a pecking order. It's different women. Women will want to reach out to their friends and talk about something they need help with.
[00:34:38] Michele: Okay. Men, a lot of them won't even call their friend for help. You know what I mean? Or their friend will make fun of them or something like that. If they show emotion or whatever, where women won't, so women have it easier that way, and I think also the dynamic of women being more independent needing men less fine in the financial realm than ever before.
[00:34:59] Michele: They need men less for the protection and even for sex, because sex toys and technology is incredible. I mean, okay, it's better to have somebody, but you know what I'm saying? Even for a baby, you know what I mean? You can get spermed on it. So, There's so many aspects that women don't need men the same way that they're used to traditionally seeing their grandfather or their father.
[00:35:20] Michele: A lot of the men I believe are having an identity crisis and they're a bit lost around this and they don't know, they get really confused and then they get confusing messages from different men. And then some men are angry at women for the change. They're angry at this dynamic change.
[00:35:33] Michele: And now what I got to do something. Why can't I have it like my dad and my grandpa did, and a lot of it's subconscious and some of it's conscious. I've actually had men tell me that they're afraid for women to be more empowered and to lead because they're afraid that women will want to take revenge on them for oppressing them.
[00:35:49] Michele: I've had actually had several men online in a person say this to me over the years. And I actually had one time I had a video call with a man we were talking for a while and with nice call, not real nice call English man. And he said to me, Oh, you're very intelligent. I have to try harder with you.
[00:36:06] And I wanted him to say it out loud. So I did the dumb blonde thing and I was like, what do you mean? And he said, well, a lot of men like women less intelligent than them. So they don't have to try as hard.
[00:36:18] Tim: And I
[00:36:18] Michele: said, that explains a lot of my dating.
[00:36:22] Tianna: Well, I think it's important, like the feminine and masculine energy both have a lower expression and evolved expression.
[00:36:31] Tianna: And so, that idea of men wanting women that aren't very smart, that's a lower masculine and a lower feminine. And then the idea like, woman wanting to take revenge, that would be a lower feminine that would want to take revenge, but we're wanting to evolve both. And also to acknowledge that we have both within us and it makes sense that the feminine energy within us, the yin energy is receptive and it's meant to be the spark.
[00:37:00] Tianna: It's the spark that is the muse for, and I'm talking within ourself and, , reflective outwardly. The feminine is actually meant to be sort of the muse. that inspires the masculine energy within us to take action. So we're meant to take inspired action. And so it's natural, actually, it makes sense that the feminine would awaken through her, receptivity and then embody that, which then attracts or magnetizes the masculine, , to then want to take action.
[00:37:32] Tianna: So yeah, it's beautiful. It's happening exactly the way it needs to happen or is meant
[00:37:37] Michele: to unfold or is natural. I was having a conversation about this. A man actually asked me this. And like I said, I , I don't have judgment. I compassionate understand struggle. Okay. I understand. But the only way anyone's going to kind of come up, , the men come up and they're going to do the work.
[00:37:53] Michele: They got to go inward, and face that fear and that conditioning, just like. We have, and when I, I talked about this to a man one time, he said that he asked me if I was a new age feminist. And I was like, what is that? I don't know. And he said, that's a feminist that doesn't like women.
[00:38:12] Michele: And I was like, no, what do you mean? I didn't say anything bad about it. I understand the struggle. I'm sitting here on a date with you. , , and he had said, and I think this is a struggle sometimes with some men also. He said, well, the cultural message is testosterone is bad.
[00:38:30] Michele: And I said, well, maybe that's what you're hearing. I said, but that's not what I hear. I kind of the cultural messages, the toxic masculinity is bad. We love the masculine alpha male. We love the confidence. We love the testosterone. We love the male energy. We just don't want all the, mansplaining and gaslighting and the abusive behavior and all that, the disrespect, you know what I mean?
[00:38:53] Michele: And I think, you know, better just cause you're a man, you know? And so I think some men have that confusion. , I hear people talking about it. I hear like. men talking about the men are lost and we have to serve them more and they, we don't have good role models to show a good male role model and all this.
[00:39:09] Michele: And I'm like, I screwed role models. I see a lot of good male role models. What are you talking about? Well, John Wayne was a really good moment, you know.
[00:39:20] Tianna: I guess it depends on who you're talking to, right? So again, I feel like that's all very old school sounding. And I think like, there's a lot of shift in transformation, maybe depending on the demographic that you're talking to.
[00:39:31] Tianna: But I think there's been a lot of transformation, like those kind of over generalizations about men and women just don't really apply anymore. , it's just so not black and white, even though people, everything is so polarized. Now everybody wants to just make it black and white, but there's So much in between that, and so
[00:39:49] Michele: I know, I mean, I totally agree with you.
[00:39:50] Michele: I'm just hearing some of my experience, people talking to me, I'm like, no, it's not, , we want to be together. We want to connect with you guys. So , I think it time goes by and discussion goes on, and more and more men start to have groups together and connect with each other.
[00:40:04] Michele: And have the discussions with women and stuff, , I already see a ton of growth and like I said, you see this beautiful conscious parenting. I see young people talking about parents. I see things on YouTube, beautiful ways of how they're talking to their kids and validating their feelings and helping them regulate and all that, , that's what, yeah.
[00:40:21] Michele: , is going to come out of the next generation and that's going to produce men that are more and men and women that are more comfortable with, themselves and loving themselves and learning how to, , suffer better, suffer better. So they suffer less, , actually learn how to embrace those difficult emotions instead of running from them all the time.
[00:40:40] Tim: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Especially about the future generations. Because I feel like a lot of what's happening in the world that the younger people are just really not accepting that as far as the negative stuff goes and and that's wonderful. I think that's like really hopeful for our future and and i'm glad you're being You were so candid about some of the experiences that you have had with men because I do feel like there Is a lot of messaging out there that's going around like negative messaging like that You know still embracing really kind of archaic ideas about how men should behave or be in the world and Yeah, and the media certain media outlets do perpetuate that there are ideas out there That are floating around that are really harmful to us as a species, and I feel like Yeah, the future generations are kind of seeing through that And not just them but even us like we can see through the nonsense,
[00:41:37] Tianna: I was just thinking that's why these tools, meditation or plant medicine or breath work, they help us to tune into our own inner truth, inner knowing, right? , and then we can have that as our compass versus, society telling us that's how we learn and we see. So we're all having to yeah, develop that discernment and to have that higher source of truth that radiates from within us.
[00:42:04] Tianna: , and then those messages. fall flat when we have that. And when we don't have that, then yeah, then that's a whole looking outside thing that you were talking about before. I think because so much has gone on in our lifetime that people have become really they've woken up, become really disenchanted with the messaging and, it's uncomfortable, but it's actually really healthy that we're learning like, Oh, why should I believe?
[00:42:29] Tianna: Them, whoever they are. Right. It's kind of like,
[00:42:32] Michele: Any kind of addict, or even anybody that goes through any kind of spiritual awakening, usually it has to go to, for most people, it has to go to an extent where something becomes really painful. Whether it be physical, emotional, maybe an addiction is taking really, really almost, taking you to the wall where you get in a bad accident or you're destroying something in your life that you love, or maybe you're almost, , thinking about suicide or whatever.
[00:42:56] Michele: It needs something, something big usually needs to happen to somebody. The butterfly effect that changed the trajectory of your life. For me, it was the back surgery, that makes you kind of go, okay, wait, I got it. I got to change course on this. What do I need to do to wake up here?
[00:43:08] Michele: , and take care of myself more and get my act together. It just comes in different flavors for people. I remember listening to an interview one time, it was with Elizabeth Gilbert and they asked her, she was on stage and they asked her , is suffering required for spiritual awakening?
[00:43:25] Michele: And she was like, well, I don't think it's required, but. It seems to be pretty common.
[00:43:33] Tianna: That's a good answer. Yeah. think that, we can grow either way, right? Like , the old system has been that we grow through suffering and , challenges and obstacles.
[00:43:44] Tianna: And then hopefully as we're shifting in as the planet and to higher frequencies, we're starting to recognize, Oh, I can choose to grow , at a higher level, through ease and joy and acceptance, really what you're saying. It's really acceptance. Acceptance , is the key love and acceptance.
[00:43:59] Tianna: And so what we resist persist. It doesn't mean bad things, whatever you call bad things, like you're not going to get traffic anymore and everything's going to happen your way. And it doesn't mean that it's like, Oh, when we have those kind of obstacles that come in, then if we're accepting, then we move through them with ease and grace.
[00:44:18] Tianna: And so what can I learn? Yeah, exactly. So it's a very,
[00:44:22] Michele: we're going to have generate a generation now of being, not everybody of course, but a larger percentage than ever being validated. We're learning now that the old stuff we used to do that we were told by doctors to do when a kid acted out and had a tantrum, they were told to go timeout.
[00:44:38] Michele: , basically giving them the message of, okay, you're not acceptable when you're authentic. So you just need to go over there and change your behavior and then we'll love you and accept you if you come back and don't show us your feelings, you know? , and we're learning , that that was crazy.
[00:44:52] Michele: Okay. And now we're going to have a generation of kids being validated and accepted for who they are and being taught how to process their emotions, So that takes that burden and all that conditioning, boom. Aside and so that I believe I would think would get have an adult get more spiritually connected easier with with less suffering.
[00:45:14] Michele: Because a lot of the suffering is learning how to do all that.
[00:45:18] Tianna: Yeah. If we had these tools, , again, we always say like, Oh, we learn all this nonsense in school and we never use it. And I don't remember all the names and dates that I had to memorize from American history.
[00:45:29] Tianna: And I pass. I always had a thing with algebra. I don't use it. Get those great grades. but do I use it in my life now? Do I remember any of it? No. But I would sure remember. Yeah. Yeah. How to embrace my emotions and deal with that. Or there's just so many, hopefully , that whole system is, is changing, deal with
[00:45:46] Michele: social situations, how to respect yourself, how to handle things financially in your life, have good balance, you know?
[00:45:53] Michele: Yeah.
[00:45:54] Tim: A
[00:45:54] Michele: lot of times it's fortunate that the parents don't know how, because they haven't healed from their own trauma.
[00:46:01] Tim: Well, Michelle, this has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on and talk with us. Do you want to let our listeners know where they can find out more about you and how to get your book and all that?
[00:46:13] Michele: Yeah, I mean Michelle with one L S C H A L I N Michelle Shalin, or you can type in mindful metamorphosis, either one. If you just Google them you'll find me on Facebook, Instagram. I'm been a marketer and an entrepreneur for 20 years. So you'll find me in a lot of different websites, interviews and stuff like that.
[00:46:32] Michele: And you can get it on Amazon in Spanish and English, and the audible will be coming out this June for in English.
[00:46:39] Tim: Perfect. Well, thank you so much again. Yeah.
[00:46:43] Michele: Thanks so much for having me
[00:46:44] guys.