Many people find that traditional talk therapy, while helpful, is limited in its approach. It tends to be focused on our thinking. Yet those of us on a spiritual path know we are more than our minds. We’re seeking holistic methods for wellness that include body, mind & spirit. This week’s guest, Marietta Skeen, is a Transpersonal & Somatic Psychotherapist, who utilizes an integrative therapeutic approach, incorporating mindfulness, meditation and energetic practices to foster growth and transformation for your whole being.
Highlights:
What exactly is transpersonal and somatic psychotherapy?
How does the integration of spirituality, psychology, and mindfulness in transpersonal and somatic psychotherapy contribute to a more holistic approach to healing and self-discovery?
What life-changing experience was a catalyst for Marietta to go into this line of work?
In what ways can the somatic aspect of therapy help you release energetic blockages and create more dynamic change in your life?
Do some people have trouble being able to sense and feel their body in somatic psychotherapy?
What role does personal authenticity and transparency play in the therapeutic relationship and the client's healing process?
How can a nervous system that allows you to feel safe and comfortable in your body help you be in loving relationship to yourself?
What is spiritual emergency?
How do we find a healthy balance in this time of AI and technology?
What’s the value of being witnessed and holding presence for one another and what are some ways to experience this?
We connected with Marietta through former guest, Christine Calvert. Check out our episode on Holotropic Breathwork with Christine, way back in Season 1.
MARIETTA SKEEN is a Transpersonal and Somatic Psychotherapist, whose devotion is aspiring toward, and helping people come into energetic integrity and flow through therapy, movement, meditation and energy work. She received her Masters in Transpersonal Psychology from Naropa University and further training at the Hartford Family Institute in body centered psychotherapy. Through her practice of contemplative movement, apprenticeship with a Buddhist monk, and her unique blend of Akashic records and Usui reiki, she weaves offerings that invite people to live with greater aliveness, clarity and ease. She can be found at mariettaskeen.com and at instagram.com/movebemoved and facebook.com/Mythrivingvillage.
TIANNA ROSER is an Usui Reiki Master Teacher, Soul Plan Practitioner and Certified Clinical Hypnotist specializing in Past Life Regression, Life Between Lives Regression and Quantum Healing Hypnosis Technique (QHHT). She uses tools and processes to help people experience their true self, the source of real healing and growth. Learn more at AwakeningTransformation.com. Tianna is the author of the book, “Awakening Transformation: A Beginner’s Guide to Becoming Your Higher Self.” Her book is filled with practices to lighten your spiritual journey and accelerate growth, available on Amazon.
TIM HOWE has always been interested in unusual and strange phenomena and considers himself to be a consciousness explorer. He was born and raised in Table Rock Village, Wyoming, which happens to no longer exist. He currently makes his home in Austin, Texas where he is constantly surrounded by beautiful females (wife, daughter and cat).
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TRANSCRIPT
This is Season 7, Episode 10 of Beyond the Illusion.
Marietta, you were referred by Christine Calvert, friend of the podcast. I'm going to put a link for her episode because she's an amazing holotropic breathwork facilitator. So if you haven't listened to that episode, definitely go back and listen to that.
There's so many things that you do and they're all really exciting. The thing that I would love to cover first. would be transpersonal and somatic psychotherapy, because we've never covered that before. And, as a hypnotherapist and an energy healer, people will come to me and tell me that they've been going to therapy for years, and they understand the dynamic and they can name it and they can tell you, my parent was a narcissist and because of that, now this is how I'm in relationships. They get it all on the intellectual level, but they're still stuck. And so I have this idea without knowing fully what it is yet. I'm looking forward to you explaining it. But this idea of transpersonal sounds to me like you're working on the spiritual level and then somatic sounds like you're working on the body level. It just sounds perfectly balanced. You've got spirit, you've got matter, you've got masculine, you've got feminine. So without further ado, please share with us what that means and how that works.
MARIETTA: Gosh, I love hearing you describe it. I get to relate to it differently, but, transpersonal, it can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people and a lot of different crowds.
And I think of it as being kind of the biggest picture I could find when I was looking for what to connect with. And I feel like it includes the psychology, which I think is what you're speaking to is a lot of people are interested in maybe understanding their life and understanding dynamics, without really knowing how to actively go in and liberate themselves from those dynamics. So the somatic piece kind of came, they came together at different times for me personally. And I would say maybe transpersonal would be an umbrella that includes.
Transpersonal is saying there's more than just our mind, and there's more than just what we're aware of. So there's something bigger, and we can't necessarily measure it, we can't necessarily point to it directly, but it has an impact on how we're living. And I really appreciated that when I was starting to have a bigger picture about how to understand ourselves in the world and in relationship. And the somatic piece is where change happens. And my understanding is that our body will respond with a sensation or a feeling and then it registers into a thought and then it registers into a behavior. So for a lot of people, we're living our behaviors and thinking our thoughts and thinking that's it.
And this is where all cognitive behavioral psychology sort of stops there. But once we start integrating the spirit and energy and certain dynamics of the nervous system that are operating under the surface, it gets a little more dynamic. And there's a lot more to work with inside the body. So I could go on forever about it, but, let me stop there for a sec.
TIANNA: So how does that work in a session? Someone comes with a presenting issue, like depression or anxiety, and do you first start at the somatic level? Do you have them feel into where it is in their body or where do you start?
MARIETTA: Yeah, I mean, that's a really rich question, because it sort of starts with who comes in. Why are people coming in? Doing transpersonal and somatic work and generally people are coming less because there's a problem and more because they want to grow. And that's sort of a misnomer in the whole psychotherapeutic world, which is you come in because there's something wrong and how do we fix it?
And transpersonal is saying in the big picture. There's no problem here. A lot of times, symptoms or struggles in relationships are merely a sign of being out of balance, or something's twisted up or knotted up energetically, or somehow we don't have enough support to live the fullness of who we are. And I don't know where I got this statistic, but somebody told me in grad school, they would say we're only using about 20% of our somatic and energetic potential, which means there's 80% of developmental potential for us.
MARIETTA: That we just sort of stop the growth process at being okay or not having a problem. Particularly in the psychotherapeutic world, right? So the assumption is people are coming in because there's something wrong. A lot of people are coming in because they want to feel more liberated. They want to feel more alive.
They want to feel more at ease in their bodies and in their relationships. And so a lot of where it starts is beginning to kind of integrate parts of self. So getting the mind and body working together. So it's a lot of training and just mindfulness of well, what do you feel, ? I mean, certainly problems come in all the time.
MARIETTA: Somebody comes in and they've had an argument with their partner. And I might say, okay, well, can you return to that feeling, go back to the argument and then we go into their body and see what's getting touched. What's happening there and it's not something we can see or measure with an instrument of any sort.
I mean, maybe you can measure people's nervous systems and their heart rate and their body temperature, but it's kind of boring if you ask me. So we go into kind of what's really happening in that moment and investigate from there. And a lot of times just going back in there starts to move energy and that's where the energy work happens. So we're talking and we're working on the mental level. But as you get into the somatic into the body, the energy starts to resonate again. So it goes from being kind of stuck and dense to starting to move. I wonder if this happens in hypnosis or Reiki, right?
TIANNA: Yeah. It sounds like you are combining your different techniques, which I really love because when I first started off in my practice, I'd be like, Oh, someone came for hypnosis and so that would be the bucket that they fall under or someone came for like past life regression then that would be our focus. But then a lot of times it was really just a container. And I learned to trust that Spirit is guiding this person to me. And maybe this is what they said they showed up for, but actually this is what's needed. That's what's emerging right now. And so we need to just shift gears, even though they booked XYZ session, maybe it's going to be ABC instead. It sounds like you just kind of seamlessly use these different tools according to what's needed.
MARIETTA: Yes. And I was also trained this way. I did a master's level program that was all about experiential education and showing up to the here and now with the energies that are moving through the body. And they're very rare. I don't see a whole lot of programs like that. So I was fortunate to actually be trained. And it happens to go along with other modalities that I offer. So yeah, it's kind of unusual.
TIM: Do you find that with some of your clients or maybe with the most of them, that they have trouble going into their bodies and feeling it because it's such a foreign idea. I mean. Especially in our culture where we're so focused on the mind and our thoughts and we really identify with our thoughts to a great deal. Do you find it difficult for some people to even go into their body and and sense it?
MARIETTA: That's a great question. Yeah, I do and I will say because I'm under this realm of somatic psychotherapy people do choose me for that Or they choose me sort of for the Buddhist mindfulness, , background that I have. And so a lot of times I see these modalities that I offer as developmental. A lot of people will come in and we'll start with more of a meditation perspective. We might sit and I'll invite them to close their eyes and just notice whatever's happening. And they may notice tons of different thoughts. And, I'll train them in a particular meditation that invites them to remember what is happening. So they're learning how to listen to their own mind, which a lot of people who are snagged in their mind, they're kind of not in relationship to it, right? It's kind of like a horse that's running ahead and dragging you behind, you know?
MARIETTA: So to me it's kind of an act of self care to learn how to utilize memory to listen to oneself. And I find that when people start doing that, it doesn't take long before they've worked their way into the body. I'm surprised at how quickly some of my meditation students in particular have really shifted into an interest of in body sensation.
TIANNA: I'm curious, I was thinking when you were saying like how maybe the majority of people that come to you don't necessarily have a problem I wouldI think that might be because of the modalities that you offer that the kind of people that are interested because it's similar with me. A lot of times if somebody comes for like past life regression or some types of spiritual regression, it's not because they have a particular problem, but they're just wanting to expand and explore beyond. But I was curious because I've seen this with my clientele, like, . Is it more women or men? I've seen more men stepping up now, but it used to be primarily women. And I see a lot more young people. For me, young could be like late teens or early twenties, like young people, whereas it used to be primarily kind of people in their golden years are interested in these things. And I was curious if you've noticed anything as far as who's coming to see you.
MARIETTA: It's pretty varied. I definitely see more women than men. I think I can say that with confidence. And the age range is pretty wide. I'm kind of just starting with teenagers recently and that's very fun and working better than I thought. I was like teenager. Woof. I got a little nervous, you know? But that's been really dynamic and mostly I see a lot of people in their 20s and 30s. They seem really eager to come in. And I did a little project this year where I interviewed all of my clients and some of them I've seen for nine years and some of them I've seen for three months. And I ask questions like why they originally came in. How it's been for them, how their lives have changed. And I have to acknowledge and I had kind of forgotten this, is that they all kind of came in with a problem and I had forgotten it. Because I think what happens is very quickly those problems are reframed as I imagine maybe in your modalities that happens too, where that reframe takes over pretty quickly. I think people are pretty pumped to let go of the gripping that comes with seeing their experiences not.
TIANNA: Okay. Wow.
TIM: What motivated you to go into this line of work? What was it? Was there a turning point in your life where something happened or you came to this awakening or was it just like a natural thing that you always wanted to do this kind of work or what what was it?
MARIETTA: That's a fun question. I was actually born really early like four months early and so I was just one pound and it was kind of a fight to survive and my nervous system was And in many ways, I felt so sensitive to the world as a young person. And so at a very young age, my parents put me in therapy to support that. And I actually found meditation and yoga as a teenager for insomnia, migraines, all these sort of nervous system issues. And it stuck. And I felt a little more connected back with spirit, , , at that birth moment and connected to the fact that I shouldn't have survived. And I did, the odds were very much against me.
So I always felt like there was something larger and I grew up in an environment where, , everyone's sort of living from their head, you don't really feel your feelings, and, , it's sort of, , not the most soulful environment, and I felt like , there's gotta be something more, and how do I support my body to release any sort of organizations that I've developed to fit into this environment and feel a little more free, a little more alive and that's been a lifelong project and will continue to be that's interesting.
TIM: Do you think people come to you because they feel that sense of like I don't know maybe like comfort or I don't know what the right word is actually .Do you think people come to you for a similar reason that you're explaining right there. Is like maybe they feel that they can open up a little bit to these different ideas and be a little more open minded about like alternative ways of healing or thinking about the issue, whatever it might be in their life because you approached your life in that same way. I would think that people would find you for that same reason, because like you're kind of aligning in that way.
MARIETTA: Yeah, I love that you said that because it's speaking to the energetics of all this. This is sort of as I guess I understand this as a transpersonal element which is, there's a larger force that I think brings people in. And my hope is that they're feeling it. I certainly am and I really am a firm believer that as any healer or practitioner, we should be doing our own work.So I'm really interested in constantly supporting my own process and live a lot of transparency with that in session without being too loose in my boundaries, you know? And so being able to hold that place of integrity where I am working on this. I am a human. I'm not finished.I think is comforting to people. It certainly makes it much more fun for me. To be able to be myself.
TIANNA: Yeah, I totally relate to that ,to chime in here too. Yeah, that whole authenticity and not having to be perfect, but being someone real. Yeah, I think there's a balance of, maybe when I first started out, like never sharing any of my personal experiences and then feeling like, No, it's helpful. It's relatable. Again, in the right measure here and there, , to share those things and to show , yeah, that's normal. And that's part of the human experience. So I like that you mentioned that. And, I was thinking when you were talking about the energetics of it, how I often see, , of course, all of our lives are a mirror of our energy, but it's such a little Petri dish, just if you're in solo practice to really see, Just like you, people can come to me for whatever intention or whatever issue it could be different one every single day, all day long And you just have hundreds of things people could come in for, but it's usually not like that. It's like, everyone's coming in right now working on letting go. And then, oh, next week, everyone's coming in working on empowerment , and it's such a reflection of stuff that I'm working through. And it's really neat to just see that.
MARIETTA: Yeah. I love the way you said that. And it feels like there's resonance there, you know? I'll work through a piece and then all of a sudden there's energy and space to attract other people who are ready to do that, Or in my case, it's clients every week. So then all of a sudden we've been working together for seven years and all of a sudden they bring the piece that I just kind of gave some attention to in myself. And that to me is really the magic. It's really enchanting and magical to me. And I find that really such a gift.
TIANNA:That's beautiful because sometimes I've seen with a psychotherapist that I know that it can be very draining, kind of soul sucking sometimes. And this is probably my bias, but my thought is if you're just working on the mental intellectual level, it's kind of like having at least one hand tied behind your back. And so it's like, Oh, you've got to work extra hard and throw everything at it. But what I've seen a lot of times is especially the transpersonal, the spiritual level, there's just infinite possibilities, right? And so it opens up the door for more ease and grace. And I like the word magic that you just used to be part of the process. What are your thoughts on that?
MARIETTA:I mean, absolutely. I think there's something about integrating the body and the transpersonal that sort of, brings it all together. So that there get to be two whole people in the room. If we're just working in the mind or one person is the professional helping someone with their problem and they know what's best, I feel like it's very quick to get snagged energetically, get snagged relationally. And I think being able to be a whole person in my office allows my clients to have conflict with me. To say, Hey, when you said that thing last week, it didn't feel good to me. And I get to really grow and learn. And so it really is that I'm growing alongside them. It's not, I'm here to heal you. Right. Cause I can't do that.
TIANNA: That's such a burden or a weight to carry. That would be totally draining.
MARIETTA: Yeah. And impossible. It just sets you up for burnout. Mm hmm. It's just not fun.
TIM: Yeah, and I think that's partially why the traditional methods of Psychotherapy or I don't know if this is actually accurate or not, but they seem like they're probably not that effective just standing alone on their own because of actually what you're saying Is that people can come into those situations and they can sense that this person they're talking to is not authentic, is not putting themselves on an equal level with me so that I can heal, and that people pick up on that, and they really can tell. And so, When the power dynamic is shifted like that where one person is trying to be the professional and they're telling the other person what to do, then, yeah, I don't think that necessarily sets you up for healing or finding your own power to heal, right? Because that's really what it's about.
It's like stepping into your own abilities to make whatever you need to make happen, happen. And, I think that traditional setting probably doesn't allow for that in many cases. But, It's like, have you seen this show? It's a Will Ferrell show where he is this kind of crazy kooky guy and he goes to a therapist, right? Because he's having a lot of trouble in his life, and so they end up becoming friends, but his therapist is in that position of power, like, oh, I'm going to tell you what to do to fix your life. And it turns out that the therapist is actually way more messed up than Will Ferrell is, and so the whole thing plays out, and they become friends. It's really an interesting story, and then at the end after I watched it, They said, oh, this is a true story. I guess it was a podcast that they turned into a movie or a TV series. It was really interesting to see how that played out. And I think that's probably pretty accurate in many cases.
MARIETTA: Yeah, yeah. It breaks my heart to see how the field has been historically. I do think it's changing. And I'm glad to see that there's a lot more embodiment in psychotherapy now than there was 15 years ago when I was in school and yeah, I want to feel hopeful about it because the nervous system is a huge way of integrating the body that wasn't online. And I think it really is starting, they're starting to require therapists to do their own work. Because that whole power dynamic, and I won't go off about the patriarchy, but it does have a certain energy, I'll totally withhold that, but it has an energy of rising above, kind of in this…in energy, psychology, we call it arrogance. It's like, You're up out of the body. You're cut at the neck and not living in your guts or your heart or your pelvis. And so it's really hard to trust someone in that. And the reason why is they're organized away from fear.
And if I were to go on about patriarchy, I would say it's a culture that is organized around fear. And a nervous system that does not feel safe to be in a body and to be alive and to be Loving in relationship to themselves or anyone else. And I think that is something that's changing right now. I think that we're in that shift. And I'm excited about how psychotherapy can start to move along with all the other modalities that might be a little ahead of it right now.
TIANNA: Yeah, I know you're talking specific, or maybe you're not just talking specifically psychotherapy, I really see that in the spiritual community as well, becoming more embodied, right? And even my spiritual journey started off like, yeah, leaving my body all the time. And then realizing, No, no, you came to be in the body. You’ve got to bring your higher self into your body, not escape your body to go be with your higher self.
And I do see a lot more of that. It's hard to know what's objective, right? Because we're energetic beings. So it's like, am I attracting that? Is it mirroring my own journey or not? But it seems like collectively as we are healing and balancing and integrating the masculine and feminine that the embodiment is a big part of that, And of course, I'm paying attention to the spiritual community because that's where I love to hang out, but I'm sure that's probably more than just in psychotherapy or in the spiritual community. That's again a collective thing. That's part of the big shift or awakening that we're all going through at this time.
MARIETTA: Yeah. And it's hard work. Coming into the body is not easy. I mean, I'm sort of speaking to some of the fun feelings about it, but it's really challenging. And I understand why, well, one, I think it's hard for people to find support for that, especially when there's a whole cultural culture organized around that. Yeah, it's a challenge. It's not always an easy road. And I just, I want to presence that reality. Yeah, yeah, there's so much I could say on this topic.
TIM: I mean, yeah, it's like speaking from experience, I can see a definite point in my life where when I really started to do some self reflecting and looking at myself and my behaviors and trying to improve. That is when I started to have really big difficulties. And they would manifest in my life in different ways that I never expected to have problems with. But now that I'm looking at things from a different perspective, I think that they were always there. It’s just, I never was taking the time to pay attention to them. Do you have people come to you like that, that have realizations, that have big awakenings and transformations in their lives. Where they have this like a big aha moment ever?
MARIETTA: Yeah, in grad school we called it spiritual emergency. And it would happen a lot of times when folks would go do a meditation retreat or something or a psychedelic experience and their nervous system didn't have support to live that much life force. And so what would happen is, and this is more extreme case, I don't know your story, but a lot of times people would have this big awakening, but it would be hard to come back in and integrate it into their lives and have it be a smooth transition into a new way of living, which is what sometimes those big experiences ask for. And I thought I was going to do a lot of work with that, and I did early on in my career, and that was really amazing. I worked in a Buddhist mental health center where folks would actually live there. You know, one person, we would hire a housemate, live with them, train them all in meditation, and give them a chance to just integrate. They had a whole team of energy workers and psychiatrists and nutritionists and all people to support them to integrate this big experience. And it was pretty phenomenal to see the transformations.
TIANNA: Yeah. I'm like, where's that? That sounds really cool.
MARIETTA: It's a cool concept. And, I still feel very connected to that environment.
TIANNA: I'm pretty sure it's not just here in Austin, but here in Austin, there's so many people doing plant medicine now and these types of shamanic work and so forth. S , it's hard to know objectively, but my feeling is that there's a lot more people that are having these big experiences, but not having the integration piece.
Have you seen that more?
MARIETTA: I'm definitely seeing more of the interest in the psychedelics and I think we're gonna see more of sort of a disintegration that can happen if Individuals nervous systems aren't ready for it, which is sort of how I understand. It feels important to kind of go back and just say that I think a lot of our nervous systems are organized, we sort of organized around the ages zero and six to fit our family system and to fit as much life force as our parents can contain or our school system or whatever. So we end up creating all of these patterns in our musculature and our mannerisms and our breath and all of these ways of being like, okay, I can live this much aliveness. And so we walk around with personalities that are built on that. If you see someone who's kind of like really competitive and they want to win the football game. They want to be that guy, or someone who's really fluid and lacks boundaries. These are all ways that we develop a whole personality, a whole self.
To feel safe and get the most love and avoid the most pain. And it's built all the way back in the beginning. And then we live it as reality forever. So you take a powerful and transformative psychedelic experience. That's going to blow that whole thing up for a second. , and. The whole body, everything in the body and the nervous system is not prepared for that big blow up, that big transpersonal energy coming in. So a lot of the work that I do is in subtle state work. This is good for prep and integration for psychedelic work. I always recommend that folks do a couple sessions before they go into something like that. Really make sure they're working with a really skilled and grounded facilitator. And feel really safe. Set and setting is everything and then really have support on the back end, particularly in the choices of where they go, where they're physically, who's around, and ideally therapeutic or some sort of healer support for integrating and grounding their experience afterwards.
TIANNA: Yeah, I look at our fast paced culture and the instant gratification and I think some people just want to have the one experience. And then boom, like, okay, now I'm at the new level and not think of it as this whole much bigger process and practice .
MARIETTA: Yeah, the quick fix.
TIANNA: Yeah. What is your perspective on the times that we're in? You mentioned the nervous system. And I was wondering, do you believe, some people talk about that we are shifting from 3d into 5d. And do you believe, like, Are our nervous systems shifting and transforming to hold higher consciousness as a collective?
MARIETTA: I don't know much about the 3D, 5D movement. What I do sense is more people are being aware of how not great it feels to constantly be in that sympathetic nervous system state that's revved up all the time. And the other alternative in the nervous system, I mean, according to polyvagal theory, we only have three major states. We live in revved up and running rr shut down depressed, right? This could be anxiety and depression, or we're safe, open and connected. And so in order I would imagine to access 5d, you'd have to feel safe, open, and connected. Your body, your nervous system, your cellular structure would have to be available. To level up, to upgrade, to heal, to learn anything new..Again, according to polyvagal theory, we can't learn anything. We can't heal anything unless we feel safe in our nervous system.
So that becomes the bottom line in any session that I'm working with anybody in it's is how do you feel regulated in the here and now? Which Is a pretty profound invitation because I find that as soon as they feel what that feels like, they want to hang out there more often. And we do a lot of , mind, body training to kind of have their nervous system start to prefer that. And then it's a pretty quick, smooth process for their cells to start taking in more life force. Kind of coming out of the dead zone, we can kind of get in the dead zone on a cellular level in our nervous system and start to come more alive.
TIANNA: So are you teaching them practices that they do at home? It sounds like mindfulness or maybe breath work or grounding or something. Because of course, psychotherapy is such a broad category. There's so many different modalities within that. But that's one of the things that I think is so helpful or empowering is to give people not just, Oh, you have to come into my office and then you get to experience this and then you go back, but like, Oh, how can you access this on your own? What are some of the things that you teach or share with your clients?
MARIETTA: Well, I do a homework assignment for the end of every single session with every single client, and we create it together. And it can be the weirdest thing you've ever heard, or it could be totally run of the mill mindfulness exercise. So it's very fun. And what I find is, I use a lot of visualization. One of the coolest things I've learned over the years is that our cells can't tell the difference between reality, what's happening in the here and now, and imagined reality. So, I use that a lot, and it works like a charm. I am always inspired by how immediately someone can imagine a really safe, comfortable, cozy place.
Could be their childhood bed, or the top of a mountain, or a cabin in the middle of the ocean. Like, they can create whatever their intuition brings in that moment. And I do it for every single client in the very first session meeting them. And every single person I've ever worked with has been able to find a place and go there.
And immediately, we do it for maybe 10 minutes at the beginning of every session, immediately their skin softens, their voice gets deeper, their eyes soften and open more. I mean, all of this is their nervous system regulating. And they immediately feel... Their breathing slows and so I'll have them go home and do that whenever they want to, not just when they're stressed. Do it when they're bored or whatever, and they do, and it makes a huge difference to do that in between our sessions. It sort of is really fun for people. But then, I had a woman, I remember one homework assignment, she was blown away by something Oprah did. And she was like, I couldn't believe the energy of Oprah. She was so badass in that moment. And one of our homework assignments was go around and be Oprah. All in the grocery store, like Oprah and see how it was in your nervous system and in your body. And yet she came back and she was just like a diva, you know? So it's fun to play with it. And be creative and let the energy of the session find its way into the homework assignment.
TIANNA: That's so awesome. I'm just imagining that woman in the grocery store and she's like, “And you get a free chocolate bar, and you get a free chocolate bar!”
TIM: Yeah, absolutely. It's so interesting, too, because you talk about these people and how they immediately can do this, and it's part of I guess it's part of our innate ability to calm ourselves and self regulate, right? Absolutely. So, it's just remembering that we have that ability, I think. Everyone forgets. It's so easy to get really tense, too, and in your mind, especially in our culture where everything is about your goals or whatever, right? Like, your agenda, your to do list, and it's like, all that's like mind stuff, right? And then it becomes part of you, who you are, who you think you are. And I think we forget, like, oh, wait a minute. There's a part of me that I can't even describe in words that I need to, remember that's there, so. Yeah.
MARIETTA: I just got goosebumps, Tim. Yeah, that's no small thing.
TIM: Yeah, and I was gonna say, like, bringing someone into the moment like that, having them visualize a safe place or a calm place, I think, is really part of attaching, or remembering that part of ourselves that's indescribable, is like really being present and just knowing that there's only this one moment, and that's right here. Everything else is just an idea.
MARIETTA: Yes.
TIANNA: I was just going to say, we get taught as we grow up that imagination is a silly waste of time. And so, because it's something similar that I do with clients, having them imagine a peaceful place and so forth. And people might imagine their favorite vacation place or something. And they're like, Oh, but I never can go there because I don't have time. Just to realize, tNo, you can go there every night or when you lay down to go to sleep. Okay. You can go here. It's right there. It's always available. And they're like, Oh, I never thought of that, because we're taught that that's just silly. And so it's something so simple, but it is really powerful. I keep joking with Tim, it's been like 105 degrees every single day here in Austin for a few months now. And I miss going hiking and it's too hot for me to go hiking. But it's like. Oh, man, I should be going hiking in my mind. I haven't been doing that lately and that would be good until it cools off a little bit, but it's not something that we always think about or remember to do.
MARIETTA: Yeah. We're pretty attached to the actual thing. And I think that again is one of the gifts of the transpersonal realm is, we can go places, , this is no small thing in the age of AI, reality is becoming different, or it's opening up for us, and I think there's something to that, of how to use it for good, and how to have it be a road to healing.
TIANNA: What are your thoughts on AI? Some people say, Oh, AI can take away all of our jobs and they can just have AI talk if they want to do some of this psychotherapy. They could just have AI talk to them. What are your thoughts about that?
MARIETTA: I just listened to a podcast on this last night that was pretty interesting, called the Emerald. I don't know if you've ever heard of the Emerald. It's a fun one. I can't remember the name of it, but I'll email you. I feel a little terrified about it. And sometimes I wonder if the world is going to split in two. There's going to be the metaverse and there's going to be sort of these realities that live in our heads that we go to and then there's going to be people like growing their own food and in energy circles or something. I don't know. So I think part of what feels a little dysregulating is there are a lot of people playing with what I see as magic.
We don't know how this is going to involve this intelligence and are not really initiated into really knowing how to work with that unknown place that has kind of a mind of its own eventually, and that scares me. It definitely touches fear, and it feels important now more than ever to kind of live into that fear and process it so that I can show up with what I do think can be beneficial ways of utilizing AI or any other tool.
TIM: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And we have a long history of doing that, where We start playing around with things that maybe, or maybe not, that we're ready for. And it's like, I was talking to my friend about this the other day, where it's like when we first started playing around with nuclear energy. People decided, and they figured out, that, oh, if we put these things together, then we can split an atom, right? And they didn't know what would happen. They really didn't know. They thought they knew, but some people theorized, and these were very intelligent people, that it would cause a chain reaction, and all the atoms would split everywhere.
And, yet, they went ahead and did it. I thought that was madness, like, if you think that's a possibility, why would you even try? But, I mean, they did, and it worked out, luckily, for us, but, , or did it, because it caused a lot of damage, too. And I think we're kind of on the precipice of that, too, with artificial intelligence. Maybe,
maybe we're not mature enough to know what it would do or the consequences of it, and we think it's really great right now, but who knows, because the other thing is, right now, AI, the CHAT GPT 4 , they gave it a what do you call those intelligence tests where you measure someone's IQ test?
Yeah, they gave it an IQ test and it ranked like 142, which is pretty high, actually. And that's like an equivalent of a very smart person. So they think that, in about five years, it could be millions of times that IQ level. So that would be way beyond anything we could comprehend, right? So I don't know. but yeah, humans are just like that. We like to push the boundaries and maybe we don't think things all the way through. And I think it kind of is reflected in our world too, because we have a lot of really amazing things in our world, but we also have a lot of devastation. And I think that's just from a lack of maturity, really. We're not quite where we think we are.
TIANNA: And intelligence doesn't necessarily equal morality. So there's lots of really smart people. It doesn't mean that they're using their intelligence for the highest and best. I don't know if there are tests where they can accurately test that, but yeah I'm with you as far as it's frightening. And I'm wanting to embrace it because I know the genie is not going back in the bottle. It's not going to go away. So we have to figure out how to use it in the highest and best and accept that it's part of our experience now.
MARIETTA: Yeah, and I love that you said that about morality, which I think is based in feeling, somatic feeling that requires being in a body and AI will never…I will never say never, but it's not in a body. And so there's something about. I kind of mentioned my childhood around what's a soulful connection. Where's the soul, where's the heart? Because I feel like that's really what we're connecting in as human beings- bodies. And I know a lot of smart people who aren't that kind or aren't that dynamic or even drawing me in. It's just kind of a closed door sometimes. And so I'm curious about feeling and what it is to be embodied humans and how that interacts with the AI culture.
TIANNA: Maybe it'll help us understand more, what I think we are doing now, which we're talking about with the embodiment, like the value of being in a body. Because I think a lot of people aren't honoring and valuing it. And of course, there's religions that teach that the body is evil and sinful. And we're kind of coming around and reexamining those things. But maybe, through this, we'll see, yes, there's some things that technology can never access. And maybe we're going to see the limits of that and the value of the body, hopefully. I mean, that'd be one positive outcome.
TIM: Yeah, I think of it like in terms of like a symbology. It really is indicative of what's happening right now to our consciousness. I think that people are becoming more aware and people like you, Marietta, who are doing work to help us realize our true potential. But when you think about AI and what it could become, it's really a reflection of us and what we could become and I think we're right on the edge of that. And that's really what people can sense too.
MARIETTA: Yeah, and I guess I appreciate sort of the way, Tianna, you're saying that this may propel another movement alongside it, of being interested in being alive. Because that's very different than being a machine, and what does it mean to be alive in relationship to each other, I think there's something about that that I'm really curious, how do we really connect with each other from that place, which is very different than engaging with these machines. But we spend a lot of, I spend a lot of time on my machine.
TIANNA: Yeah, I mean, I use mine so much for work. It's like my client's scheduling and their information. And I play it when I'm guiding people into hypnosis, play music from it. And sometimes I forget to bring my phone and I can't do my work almost because I don't have all my client information. And really I can't think of the last time I actually turned my phone completely off. I'll put it in airplane mode, but that's crazy. I have that thing always on. I put it on airplane mode, but it's the alarm that I wake up to in the morning and it's always on with me.
And so I'm kind of saying that to myself now, like, I'm going to turn the phone off as soon as I get off of here. But yeah, we are so interconnected with it and I think a lot of us are yearning more for the earthly experience and the body connection and the nature experience now because of that, we're recognizing that. Are there other things that you do that you wanted to share that we haven't touched on or other offerings that you have that you would like to talk about?
MARIETTA: Yeah, I mean, as we're speaking, I'm thinking about one modality that I offer, and I'm actually doing a lot with clients these days. It comes out of the authentic movement realm, which is a modality that involves two people kind of in relationship to each other. I call it resonant movement right now, or contemplative movement, where one person closes their eyes and they just follow impulse in their body.
And what I find is we get a little disconnected from impulse in our body of what would feel good, when we spend a lot of time in our head. And so for a lot of people that can feel really vulnerable and the other person is witnessing themselves witness this person. So you're being seen in a pretty intimate space and also seeing people in intimate space and then you switch roles.
So I do this with clients, I do it with friends as a mover and a witness, and what I find is that people really feel this intimate new experience of being seen and connected. That is so outside of anything else that we do, right? We're not articulating what we know or talking about something we have in common. It's a chance to kind of be in your own private experience. It might mean you're doing yoga postures that you know, or I mean, anything can happen in that container. So I find that really a pretty far out place to hang out, and I'm surprised at how often people are up for it.
TIM: It sounds awesome. And yeah, AI can't do that. A machine can't do that. That sounds awesome. You have to be a person to do that.
MARIETTA: You have to be a person to do that. Exactly. That's why it came to my mind. It is a uniquely personal thing. And I think we're living in, as I said, a culture that does feel organized around fear. And this feels like the antidote to that. Witnessing someone in their intimate space of connecting in their body, to me, is an act of love. To me, that's an act of care and connection and intimacy that gets lost in AI land or, in the cell phone: I'm gonna Send you an emoji. It's like, that's not an emotion, you know. Let's be real about
it.
TIANNA: That makes me think of the holotropic breathwork workshop because you have somebody who’s the experiencer and the other person is the sitter. And it is really powerful just to have someone holding space for you and being really present with you. And my experiences have been that both are very valuable. Regardless of which role you're playing at that time, it is very valuable. I think what you're explaining, I also experience that in ecstatic dance. That's another time where I feel like we're in our beingness and we're being witnessed in our presence and it's accepted. But yeah, otherwise it is like we're trying to say the right thing and get a response. And so it's important to have that somewhere in our life. I don't think there are a lot of ways in the average person's life to get that right now.
MARIETTA: I love that you mentioned the holotropic breathwork where Christina and I want to put these two modalities together. So we'll report we might be in Austin in January. We'll let you know.
TIANNA: Let us know. Yeah, definitely.
TIM: Yeah, definitely. Well, it looks like time's up already and I was just wondering if you want to let our listeners know Where they can find out more about you or your services
MARIETTA: Yeah. Marietta Skeen over here. You can find me at marietteskeen. com. That's M A R I E T T A S K E E N. That's my name. On Instagram, I'm movesbemoved. And, , Facebook, same thing, Marietta Skeen.